April 6, 2022

Manufacturing 5.0

Manufacturing 5.0

This week on the podcast (augmentedpod), futurist Trond Undheim interviews Kathryn Kelley, Executive Director of the Ohio Manufacturing Institute at Ohio State University (@omiosumfg). This is episode 67 of Season 2, "Manufacturing 5.0"

Augmented reveals the stories behind the new era of industrial operations, where technology will restore the agility of frontline workers. Technology is changing rapidly. What’s next in the digital factory? Who is leading the change? What are the key skills to learn and how to stay up to date on manufacturing and industry 4.0? Augmented is a podcast for industrial leaders, process engineers, and shop floor operators, hosted by futurist Trond Arne Undheim (@trondau), and presented by Tulip, the frontline operations platform.

My takeaway: In this conversation, we talked about industrial trends in Ohio, across the US. Ohio, along with Michigan, California, and Texas, is where the bulk of US manufacturing habits are formed. That's why tracking their thinking is important. To think that it would take decades to roll out industry 4.0 in Ohio is mind-boggling. Can it be true?
This is why we need a new approach to industrial tech and one where training needs are drastically reduced and technology can be implemented in days and weeks instead of months and years. I believe that the opportunity exists now. Now let's roll it out, test it and see if it can happen. Training is key, and government and state-sponsored programs are an important component.

The Augmented podcast is created in association with Tulip, the frontline operations platform that connects the people, machines, devices, and systems used in a production or logistics process in a physical location. Tulip is democratizing technology and empowering those closest to operations to solve problems. Tulip is also hiring. You can find Tulip at Tulip.co
If you liked this episode, you might also like episode 49 "Lean Manufacturing in the USA," episode 46 "Manufacturing Training in Massachusetts," or episode 30 "Rethinking Workforce Learning."

Please share this show with colleagues who care about where industrial tech is heading. 

To find us on social media is easy, we are Augmented Pod on LinkedIn and Twitter, and Augmented Podcast on Facebook and YouTube:

See you next time. Augmented--industrial conversations that matter. 


Trond Arne Undheim: Welcome to another episode of the Augmented podcast. Augmented reveals to stories behind the new era of industrial operations or technology restore. The agility of frontline workers. Technology is changing rapidly. What's next, the digital factory who is leading the change. What are the key skills to learn and how to stay up to date on manufacturing and industry in episode 67 of the podcast.

[00:00:30] It's Manufacturing five. Our guest is Kathryn Kelly executive director at the Ohio Manufacturing Institute at the Ohio state university. In this conversation, we'll be talking about the industrial trends statewide in Ohio, the third-largest state for manufacturing and trends nationally across the US.

[00:00:51] On manufacturing for adoption of industry 4.0 a transition that the Ohio manufacturing Institute thinks will take a couple [00:01:00] of decades. We explore the manufacturing 5.0 project, a program that the Ohio manufacturing Institute is piloting to support the NIST manufacturing, extension partnership clients.

[00:01:11] These firms are supported financially by this. My partnership to help them on their digital transformation journey to develop new products and customers expand and diversify markets adopt new technology and enhance value within supply chains, Augmented podcast, industrial leaders, process engineers in the shop floor operators hosted by futurists and presented by to the frontline operations platform. Augmented industrial conversations. 

Kathryn, How are you? 

[00:01:44] Kathryn Kelley: Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm doing really well excited to be on the show. Well, 

[00:01:50] Trond Arne Undheim: I'm as excited as can be. You have your Ph.D. in communications master's degree in rhetoric and are head of the Ohio [00:02:00] manufacturing Institute, but even more interesting to me, you are this fitness fanatic and you and I talked about this earlier as extremely interest.

[00:02:10] Kathryn Kelley: Yes. It's one of those things that I've kept up. I think it's a great stress reliever and I'm trying to stay in for the long haul. 

[00:02:19] Trond Arne Undheim: Yes. So pump and run. Let's cover that first. It's a sporting event with strength, challenges, and Arnold sports Negar is involved. How did you get involved in that?

[00:02:29] Kathryn Kelley: That's a highly intellectual endeavor. 

[00:02:32] Trond Arne Undheim: Yes. I recognize that. Yes. 

[00:02:36] Kathryn Kelley: I was lifting at an early age and found that. Activity that would combine running a 5k with bench pressing. And I thought I would give it a try and got as far as fifth female in, in the competition. And of course, then COVID happened, but it was a fun event, especially having Arnold [00:03:00] source Nager with the starter gun at the beginning of the.

[00:03:03] Trond Arne Undheim: That does sound like it adds some inspiration. And you said you started running at 13 with your dad. That must be another inspiration. 

[00:03:10] Kathryn Kelley: It was. And it's something that I think having those conversations with him while running, I, I don't think I would have gotten the. Opportunity, otherwise with five girls in the family.

[00:03:22] So it was my special time with him and I kept going with it and I haven't stopped. 

[00:03:27] Trond Arne Undheim: I think that was a wise move. And then on the side, you've been doing some work in manufacturing as well. Let's talk about that for a second. Right? So rhetoric and then onto. You know, supercomputing job here. I see. So you've been on straddling kind of public relations communications, but also always on the physical infrastructure side.

[00:03:48] So you like policy and technology 

[00:03:53] Kathryn Kelley: that is the intersection and throw in some research trying to dig into what is needed and [00:04:00] ask the questions of those who we are serving. Starting in the mayor's office, working with the IT firms in the area. And, everybody wanted to be Austin.

[00:04:10] We wanted to be tech town. So that's something that was really, I think at the crux of my start and then working in the supercomputing center, we had a program called blue-collar computing that focused on computer simulation and modeling for small and mid-sized businesses. And that formed the foundation for what I do.

[00:04:31] I think high manufacturing Institute. 

[00:04:33] Trond Arne Undheim: So Columbus, Ohio and manufacturing. Ohio is one of the heartlands of the US right. Third largest manufacturing state. Tell me a little bit about Ohio and what's going on there right now. 

[00:04:45] Kathryn Kelley: Well, we are the third largest manufacturing state in the US is behind California and Texas.

[00:04:50] And it's the largest employer, also the largest, in GDP, in the state. So very large presence. We make a lot of things in this [00:05:00] state, everything from aerospace to automotive or the number one polymer manufacturer in the S. I mean, you go down from the smallest widget all the way up to the largest missiles and we make it right here in this state.

[00:05:13] So a lot of need from the manufacturers on all different levels, it's definitely a microcosm of what's happening nationally and even internationally. 

[00:05:23] Trond Arne Undheim: The Ohio manufacturing Institute. Can you enlighten me a little bit on the mandate? It's one of the fairly early manufacturing institutes that were created on a federal level.

[00:05:33] Is that right? On the state level? 

[00:05:34] Kathryn Kelley: We work hand in hand with the Ohio manufacturers association. Which is part of the national association of manufacturers. And we work with both the Ohio and the a, and the federal NIST manufacturing extension partnership, really focusing in on the needs of manufacturers in particularly the small and mid-sized firms in this state, the small and midsize firms in which we categorize [00:06:00] as 250.

[00:06:02] Employees make up more than 90% of the state's manufacturers. So you are able to help them innovate and to support them. Of course, the workforce looms large right now with all manufacturing. So we've developed industry vetted policies. We always start with their input for. And then we develop the policies and programs that support their needs.

[00:06:24] And then I'm leading the coordination of our bachelor of science degree in engineering technology that was based on focus groups and some labor own net skills data that determine what are the engineering technology needs for the future. And then the work that we're doing with NIS right now is focusing on a digital transformation, and readiness assessment to help manufacturers with industry 4.0.

[00:06:49] Trond Arne Undheim: Wow, so many threads here. And so you've been working for the Ohio Manufacturing Institute since 2013. And as far as I understand it, now you're both partnering on [00:07:00] state-level grants and initiatives and, working with the MEP system federally, and thirdly also directly with the university, which is hosting you, as a center.

[00:07:10] And you said also about the future of technology and the city and other things, what are some of the more interesting projects that you can share? Some detail from, I know we're going to talk in a second about the manufacturing 5.0, but what are some of the other projects that you are running sort of concretely.

[00:07:26] Kathryn Kelley: Once that I did previously that blue-collar computing project at the supercomputing center, that was something that we developed. And I learned a lot about manufacturers in the early to mid two thousand and their temperament for technology. If it doesn't fit within the culture, it's not going to work.

[00:07:49] One story I tell is that I was working with the manufacturing extension partnership in Cleveland called magnet, the CEO at the time, Dan Barry, we were talking to him [00:08:00] about, look at this great program we have, and we can provide. Computer simulation and modeling, or all the engineer has to do is fill in the parameters.

[00:08:10] They don't need a Ph.D. in high-performance computing. They can develop, for example, they can figure out the strength of the metal and the joining of the metals through the simulation program. And he sat there and he said, well, I can see the typical manufacturer, maybe 40% have engineers. On staff and the owners may be deciding whether they're going to hire an engineer to support this program that you're presenting to me, or whether they're going to get the boat out on Lake Erie.

[00:08:45] Trond Arne Undheim: Well, exactly. And this is, the heart of the discussion we're having here because in smaller companies and, sometimes smaller companies and startups, they're sort of growing fast and they're rapidly becoming larger and they can afford after a while to hire a bunch of [00:09:00] engineers, but.

[00:09:01] In the sort of like SME sector that you're talking about here sometimes called mom and pop shops, whatever their size. They historically haven't had an enormous amount of engineers. And even if they have had engineers, correct me, if I'm wrong, those are not computer or digital engineers. They might be process engineers or operational experts of some sort.

[00:09:21] So what we're really talking about here is quite a big. It 

[00:09:25] Kathryn Kelley: is a big lift and the adaptation of these small to mid-sized firms to industry 4.0 or smart manufacturing, or, you know what we've coined manufacturing 5.0 or operations technology, 5.0, that could take 20 to 30 years to reach small to midsize firms at the current rate of change.

[00:09:45] I stopped at that.

[00:09:46] Trond Arne Undheim: When you said that last time, and I'm wondering one, how did you come up with sort of that number 20, 30 years? I mean, it's decades and if that is the case, w what are we going to do that [00:10:00] doesn't bode? Well, I guess, for transitioning to. 

[00:10:03] Kathryn Kelley: Well, I think it's really going to be based on customer demand that comes from the OEMs who can afford the transition.

[00:10:10] They have the teams, they have the resources to move toward industry 4.0, and they will be demanding it from their tier one and beyond suppliers. So it's coming. And if you think about it, I mean, the ERP diffusion took more than 40 years, starting in 1973. So it didn't happen overnight. And industry 4.0 is not going to happen overnight.

[00:10:32] So I think we'll have some fits and starts. But I think with that thumbnail reference to 20 to 30 years, a couple of generations, I think you're dealing with everything from legacy equipment to a culture. I think that this is more as much of a business problem than a technical problem.

[00:10:50] So. The business solutions are going to be needed before the technical solutions can profoundly affect the business. And they're going to face the threats [00:11:00] of failing to invest in those technologies and falling behind. And so we're going to end up with this manufacturing haves and have nots. If the structures are not put in place.

[00:11:11] And so that's the concern that we have is that either the small and midsize companies are. Addressing what is coming toward them. Sometimes it's snowballing and others it's trickling depending on the industry, but what is going to allow them to remain competitive and invest in the technologies. Also, sometimes they're getting sold a bill of goods by consultants.

[00:11:34] The consultants are talking to them about one-off automation projects, but not really looking at it from a systemic level. And if you have a series of standalone automation products, But you don't have some kind of continuous improvement discipline as part of the managerial culture. I think that moving toward digital operations technologies is going to prove more difficult.

[00:11:57] Trond Arne Undheim: If we move then for a second to what [00:12:00] you guys are calling manufacturing 5.0, and now I'm aware that there's terminology being introduced, in the US industry 4.0, hasn't historically even been the big term. Right? Smart manufacturing was something that I sort of caught on and has become the, kind of the policy term for this industry.

[00:12:18] 4.0, being a European term from Klaus Schwab by guests, with the World Economic Forum. Well, as much as European is that organization is international, but you have now this project that you call Manufacturing 5.0, talk to me a little bit about how that got started. And in this course that you're bringing in companies to take with you on this journey, how you see the evolution and what you're asking manufacturers to think about when it comes to this evolution.

[00:12:46] I guess even from like 3.0. Which is it correct? That you're seeing this as like the beginning of a transitional technology process, but it's really lean manufacturing with some bells and whistles on it. And [00:13:00] than 4.0 being, focusing on true lean and with some digital tools. And then there's this 5.0, which all that you described, which must be a much more complete set of actions.

[00:13:12] Kathryn Kelley: Yes, that's accurate. So, I mean, we could even go back to 1.0, and that would be you're using the mechanicals water and steam power there. We found the nail factory in France. That's a heritage historical site that still produces nails in this fashion. So. There's at least one firm that exists, and then you have Manufacturing 2.0, and that's really more of the American production system with Ford is the most popular example of that.

[00:13:36] The assembly line, continuous flow, specialized tools. And then as you said, Manufacturing 3.0, that's a production connected to ERP and PLCs. And then 4.0, as you mentioned is a continuous improvement culture. And then with 5.0. That's the machine data transfer and connection. So it really is more, you would say, well, that's industry 4.0, and it [00:14:00] is, but we decided to be a little tongue in cheek in some sense, and try to make sense of industry 4.0 for companies.

[00:14:08] You know, last year we were asked to conduct a national conversation with manufacturers through NIST MEP, and we spoke to dozens of manufacturers, small to mid-sized who are clients of. The manufacturing extension partnership everywhere from Alaska to Florida and in-between, and we found that they really don't understand what industry 4.0 is.

[00:14:31] So we really separated out the opera's operations technology to identify that. So in the case of manufacturing, 5.0 or operations five-point really it's industry 4.0 is the ERP. And we heard how updates and installations that ERP is during the year before COVID, improved the cash and competitive positions of a number of businesses.

[00:14:53] It's the world of top-down control, computer science, and information technology, but information technology is. [00:15:00] The same thing as operations technology. And, in some cases, the IT staff is separated from the OT staff and some manufacturers are still like this where R and D are completely separated from manufacturing.

[00:15:12] You have to throw something over the fence. And so it can't run your machines for you. There has to be a connection to the operations technology. You know, at least that's our argument. And then you have the internet of things. And that's also being used interchangeably with industry 4.0, and we depart from convention here.

[00:15:32] My colleague Ned hill, who's a faculty member in the John Glenn college of public affairs and has served on the NIST MEP board. The National board worked very closely with the Ohio manufacturers association for many. We see some use IoT and industry 4.0 is synonyms, and they really mean everything digital.

[00:15:50] And so we see that there's a metric that places a digital investment into the limited world of IoT and the companies need to ask you, does the outcome [00:16:00] affect the top line of the income statement? So to us, the IoT is the realm of sales, whether it's B2B or B2C. And that also includes smart products.

[00:16:08] With either information or remote controls as part of that value proposition. So that's where that cloud storage and remote analytics supply, and then operations technology. Our research indicates there are five generations. These are digitally connected, smart machines at the 5.0 level. And coordinating them is the essence of what we call the next lane.

[00:16:30] And, we also include legacy capital equipment combined with legacy electronics. How do you combine those into the mix? I remember going on a tour of a factory in Northeast Ohio, and they have machines there that have been around since the 1950 sixties, and seventies. And, they've attached them to sensors and they're still using them.

[00:16:53] I still do what they're supposed to do. We've looked at that with small and mid-sized firms and we're trying to figure out, what can they [00:17:00] afford? Is there going to be a renting model? And then if they attach themselves to a particular software solution, are they tied into that? Is there an opportunity to have open source options?

[00:17:13] There are a lot of questions that come out of that. 

[00:17:16] Trond Arne Undheim: What I'm sensing here is, and correct me if I'm wrong, but this 5.0 concept that you have is one way to think of it is when you have fully breached and resolved, I guess also the IT and OT divide when sort of like information systems is one collection.

[00:17:33] And by the way, culture seems to be important here. You were speaking about that earlier. It's when technology is not fully divorced from the workforce. In other words, there's a synergy, a true kind of spirit of, the technology is actually working for people as opposed to. Being something that one is treading down people's throats that you get stuck with.

[00:17:52] It's not just sort of machine-to-machine communication, per se, which I guess a lot of these early attempts. So 4.0 [00:18:00] implementation is just let's just pick up the shiniest object, whether it is robotics or some sort of robotics with analytics on it. But you haven't really understood what you're doing, right.

[00:18:10] And you're not maybe buying the right thing or you're buying it too early, or you're not training your workforce. You're talking about a situation where all of those factors are a little bit more under control. And so ideal state with a synergy that's really coming out between kind of people and technology.

[00:18:28] That's sort of what I'm reading into what you're saying here. 

[00:18:31] Kathryn Kelley: Yes. And I think that's a theme that comes out of some of the guests that you've had on Augmented. 

[00:18:36] Trond Arne Undheim: Well, that's certainly something a lot of people hope for. So I was just curious when you guys are thinking about this and sort of how you train organizations to get sort of, to that point, what are some of the things on the cultural side that you are focused on when you actually work with individual company?

[00:18:54] Kathryn Kelley: What we're working on right now, if I can take the digital transformation project doesn't [00:19:00] example is, we see this path toward digital maturity. It's a journey that manufacturers take to achieve that digitization. It involves the deployment of best practices, but also improving key performance indicators so that their KPIs is in the lifeblood of a lot of manufacturers.

[00:19:18] So what we want is for these small and mid-sized manufacturers to act and invent. To digitally transform their organizations and achieve operational excellence and growth. So, they have to quantify their current state of digital maturity and they do that through this assessment, after they've answered all the questions, it provides them.

[00:19:39] With a number of where they stand. And this is a pilot right now, but as more companies participate in the assessment, then the company can look and see where they align with others in their size, their industry, and where they are with their number of employees. And they [00:20:00] can go into each section and determine, are their business practices at a level that others are, that are there smart products?

[00:20:08] Where are the gaps. So they need to focus on those areas of weakness and constraints that will limit and improve the performance and then plan a collaboration. But this is not just the CEO. This is the team. It's your it director to your COO. I can't be an assessment where you're sitting there filling it out on the computer.

[00:20:29] You really need to bring your team in and focus in on what everyone agrees is the level at which you're at that particular time. And we've involved the MEP because they have a consultative model and they are entrenched and lean. And we see this as a way for us to build this next lane. And I know there are other groups that are focusing in on this, and we really don't have a fully-formed idea of what the next lane looks like, but we're building on that based [00:21:00] on what we're doing with these companies, but ultimately trying to develop a foundation for that.

[00:21:05] So they can go back and are continuously reviewing. Where they stand. And we're thinking about once every six months would be a good interval at no less than once a year. And then that repeated assessment of frequent intervals can really drive their ongoing digital improvements. 

[00:21:23] Trond Arne Undheim: So, Kathryn, when I'm looking through the program you have here, you have gamified it too. So in this report that there's even a board game that you're designed for this process. 

[00:21:33] Kathryn Kelley: We started out that way. And that was something that got lost in the mix. Well, it didn't get lost, but there was a decision made that might not be the best approach. So that game actually transitioned into a gimbal walk.

[00:21:47] So we figured that would be the best approach if the company chose to do so after the assessment, you know, on their next. They should come up with steps to make progress. And then we have a spreadsheet that they can [00:22:00] fill out. And then with MEP, they can walk through and do that gimbal walk, based on what they learned from the assessment.

[00:22:07] That's one tool that they can use, but in the mix of tools, I would love to do it when our student researcher who's actually now being employed as a lean improvement engineer, she went through and set it out with, warehouse and production. And we started to look at the blocks and it looked like a game board, but it looked a little bit too close to minimal.

[00:22:30] And we decided to scratch it. 

[00:22:32] Trond Arne Undheim: So just for context. So Gemba walk is, of course, part of the lean philosophy, but what is it in, what is it not in your particular kind of implementation here? So there are some steps for performance evaluation. I noticed earlier, you were also saying that you were assessing different factors.

[00:22:48] So the company in zero to five in terms of readiness, and then they have to walk along with this improvement. 

[00:22:54] Kathryn Kelley: What we're trying to do with the Gemba walk is to help this improvement [00:23:00] team that has gathered to do the assessment, to identify how and why the digital weaknesses exist. So anecdotally, we've walked through a company, and what we were told that the company was at a certain point when we actually viewed where they were.

[00:23:16] Y at a different place. We even walked through one time and they said, oh, we've made all these improvements. And it really was just, they had a shoot for these plastic bags, for the workers to gather the shredded material. And then one of their machines was smoking. And then we turned the corner and there were all these pallets and the general manager was saying, I don't know why these pallets are here.

[00:23:40] So. With this pilot project, we realized that the advanced pre-meeting that we had, where we walked through the plant when the company got stuck on a certain question and we get identify things, just being outsiders, looking at this for fresh eyes, some things that they had not seen because they're in it every day.

[00:24:00] Well, one thing that's so interesting with the concept of a Gemba walk is that it actually literally is a walk in the sense that you were talking about it and OT earlier. And certainly, a lot of our engineers have had to do that walk themselves. Right? So we're walking, the shop floor is final.

[00:24:17] I slept on the shop floor for a while to just understand this. This is not something where you can sit and create a system in the abstract that works for some sort of abstract engineering situation, because the shop floor is the shop floor. Right. And things happen in and around. You can't model everything.

[00:24:36] Kathryn Kelley: Right? It can't be done by reviewing the metrics on a computer screen. I mean, you are talking about a problem in a distance conference room. You really actually have to get out there and, Stereotyping, because I know that there are a lot of the C-suite that are down on the floor, on a regular basis, they're having their meetings every morning.

[00:24:53] I know plenty of manufacturers to do that, but having a purposeful walk and talking to those at [00:25:00] all levels of production and all departments, will really help you identify those digital weaknesses and gaps depending on your assessment. Your production might be in good shape, but it might be your way.

[00:25:11] No, our supply chain, that's the issue. And so being able to prioritize problems, and establish there's improvement projects that I think it's it's a good tool. And we're really glad that we hit upon that instead of our monopoly game because I think this will definitely be more impactful.

[00:25:26] Trond Arne Undheim: That's the challenge though, right? Is scale because like you said, if it takes 20 to 30 years on the average with serious new improvements of technological character on the shop floor, for all of these reasons, digital transformation, it's almost like it's something where you don't really have the luxury of that time.

[00:25:43] Right? Because digital generations will switch off much faster than that. And, by the time some people have learned. One version, the next version of digital is going to be almost unrecognizable. How do you think, because you seem like an optimistic [00:26:00] person, what do you think of change? Are you optimistic that even though some of these things will take time and I guess that's okay that you can indeed make a transformation in a digital transformation or the industry towards some sort of 5.0 state?

[00:26:14] Is that going to be possible within this general? 

[00:26:18] Kathryn Kelley: Yeah, I think it is. I, if they have a roadmap, we establish this in a way that they might be nervous. For example, as I mentioned before, about taking captive bio, some kind of proprietary software, if they go through this assessment process, it might make it clear to them that there are some things they can do operationally before they make the decision.

[00:26:38] But really it's about. Taking one project as a time to move toward having that more digitally connected operations technology and building those tools. And it may be connecting that legacy equipment with sensors or, having the video capture. There's a manufacturer about half an hour away from us and.

[00:26:57] It's a tier-one supplier of a large [00:27:00] manufacturing company here. And the president is the master of pokey Oak, and everything has a barcode. Everything has video cameras. He's got it all decked out. And when the OEM contacts him and says, you have an error in one of the items that you sent us, he can go back to the millisecond and say, no.

[00:27:25] Actually not so it's, I think it's definitely possible. And that's a midsize company. 

[00:27:32] Trond Arne Undheim: That's fascinating. And, but one of the things that you seem to be driving at is that the generation technology that we should be aiming for is actually a flexible type of technology that to fully implement. It will take a little while, but we should strive towards these simpler.

[00:27:48] The industry jargon. Just like low-code or no-code technologies where you are involving many more people in the process. And it's not like it's one decision. Like we have implemented this system or [00:28:00] we are going to, and then everyone has to prepare forever and train forever. And then eventually you come to some sort of state where you have implemented this system where we're looking for, is systems that are easier to implement so that you don't have this generation issue where you're like, Well, the next five years, we're implementing this massive monolithic thing that by the way, will lock us into one vendor.

[00:28:23] You're hoping for systems that are much more open-ended you mentioned open source, certainly standardized interoperable components that kind of plug and play with each other. And don't take, a Ph.D. to solve. 

[00:28:35] Kathryn Kelley: Exactly. And I think learning those lessons when I did with the blue-collar computing project, then you took the words out of my mouth, for example, cyber security systems that are plug and play, and self-monitoring something that does not require a consultant to come on board to complete.

[00:28:50] I'm hearing a lot of concerns about the costs of becoming compliant and it's been a difficult task force for some of [00:29:00] these small companies. 

[00:29:01] Trond Arne Undheim: Yeah, right. Because if you only have one engineer or you're about to hire one, because you're going to implement a system, then, first of all, that person gets a lot of responsibility on their shoulder, but also the rest of the company, they're essentially helpless, right?

[00:29:16] They're just receivers of whatever, hopefully, improvements in their work process. But I guess, this goes for anyone's work process, right? It's difficult to change what you're doing. And especially if you don't really see. Individually, you can't really see that it's helping you because the benefits sometimes are spread out and the benefits are abstract.

[00:29:35] And they're only visible to the managers or something that's really demotivating sometimes. 

[00:29:40] Kathryn Kelley: I mean, especially if whatever it is, whether it's an app or some other kind of solution that can be integrated into the operation. Something, like you said, it's the plug and play option, but again also, it has to make sense to what's happening and the assistance that they've set up.

[00:29:59] I think some clear [00:30:00] guidance for these small to mid-sized companies is needed. 

[00:30:05] Trond Arne Undheim: So I wanted to touch on one thing that you do, you produce and host the manufacturing tomorrow podcast. That's a fun project, but it's not just fun. You're actually educating people as you go along. I've listened to some episodes there.

[00:30:18] What got you started with that? 94 episodes since 2014. You're an early podcaster.

[00:30:27] Kathryn Kelley: I started it because I really wanted to give voice to the manufacturers. And it's fascinating. Every time I go into a manufacturing plant and see what is produced and how they started the company and what they're doing in the future and how. They're dealing with what the environment is, whatever it is they're producing, it's exhilarating hearing their stories.

[00:30:53] And, I intersperse it with some of the service providers, or, new technologies that are [00:31:00] available. Of course, I'm definitely looking at your podcasts as a way to come up with some guests that could inform the public, the manufacturers, and the policymakers who listened to the show.

[00:31:11] I particularly, I'm interested in the stories of women manufacturers of which we have a few, only 5% of manufacturers that are in leadership positions are. So I'm always interested in what they have to say and how they got to their position. Some really great conversations that I've had over the years.

[00:31:34] Trond Arne Undheim: Well, then I should introduce you to one of my upcoming guests who just started the women in manufacturing podcast. So that should be a good introduction. 

[00:31:43] Kathryn Kelley: Oh, definitely. It's one of those things. I went to interview Lakana dagger. Who's the head of velvet ice cream in Eastern Ohio. And that was one of my favorites because I got some ice cream afterward.

[00:31:56] That was wonderful. [00:32:00] Yes. And then just the story of her sisters and her all head up different areas of the company. And then moving over to Western Ohio, there's a supplier for Walmart was introduced to me by the VP for manufacturing, for Walmart, Ashley Thompson of 50 strong. And she produces water bottles.

[00:32:21] She was at. Second-generation manufacturer. She left to focus on corporate law and then came back with her family and took up a subsidiary of her father's business to focus on these water bottles. And now she accosts, people who are buying water bottles in the store to ask them why they.

[00:32:41] What they picked and what are the features that are attractive to them? And I asked her, what have you done that you never thought you would be doing five years ago? And she said, I never thought I'd be schlepping water bottles through the TSA going to Arkansas. 

[00:32:56] Trond Arne Undheim: Yeah. There are many stories in manufacturing that [00:33:00] deserve to be told and all honor to you for telling some of those stories we're storytellers.

[00:33:05] And I understand your dad was a storyteller and your uncle's stories are in Smithville. 

[00:33:11] Kathryn Kelley: Yes, that's true. My great uncle's stories are in the Smithsonian and my dad has his jokes and stories and, I felt a little far from the tree. So I ended up trying to reciprocate by bringing in other people who can tell fantastic stories about the Genesis of their organization.

[00:33:29] And I think that folklore aspect of it, you can find yourself in a story. 

[00:33:36] Trond Arne Undheim: Exactly. You find yourself in the story and to the point you were making about Ohio, right? It's not just a statistic that it is the third largest kind of manufacturing state. It obviously means something for the identity of people in that industry.

[00:33:49] You're not just in an industry to earn money. This is something your parents might've done. It goes in families. And it means something in the territory, in the region you're based, it has a history and that's.

[00:34:00] Kathryn Kelley: It absolutely does. And I'm humbled every time I hear it, a story of someone who is able to produce something, whether it's casters or, an injected molded door for a car, or someone who's able to produce ice cream.

[00:34:17] Trond Arne Undheim: I'm fascinated and it seems like Ohio's in good hands when it comes to moving away from industry 1.0, it seems on a good track towards five. So congratulations on that work, Kathryn. And I wish you the best of luck for the next 30 years, trying to close the gap to get everybody on that bandwagon. Or maybe you'll do it in 20 or perhaps 10.

[00:34:40] I mean, it looks like you're on good one. 

[00:34:42] Kathryn Kelley: It looks like we're all going to have to keep running. 

[00:34:44] Trond Arne Undheim: Well, Z, there you go. We're gonna all have to be marathoners though if we're going to accomplish that. So thank you so much for taking the time and stay in touch. I'm curious to see really how quickly this 5.0 program is going to take in, in your state.

[00:34:58] Kathryn Kelley: Right. And I look forward to hearing your upcoming podcast.

[00:35:02] Trond Arne Undheim: Great. Well, thanks so much. Thank you. You have just listened to episode 67 of the Augmented podcast with hosts through the uneven hype. The topic was manufacturing 5.0. Our guest was Katherine Kelly executive director at the Ohio Manufacturing Institute at the Ohio State University. In this conversation, we talked about industrial trends in Ohio, across the US, and nationally.

[00:35:32] We explored the Manufacturing 5.0 project. In this conversation, we talked about industrial trends in Ohio, across the US. Ohio, along with Michigan, California, and Texas, is where the bulk of US manufacturing habits are formed. That's why tracking their thinking is important. To think that it would take decades to roll out industry 4.0 in Ohio is mind-boggling. Can it be true?

[00:35:54] This is why we need a new approach to industrial tech and one where training needs are drastically reduced and technology can be implemented in days and weeks instead of months and years. I believe that the opportunity exists now. Now let's roll it out, test it and see if it can happen. Training is key, and government and state-sponsored programs are an important component.

[00:36:19] Thanks for listening. If you like the show subscribe at Augmented podcast.co or in your preferred podcast player and rate us with five stars. If you liked this episode, you might also like episode 49 "Lean Manufacturing in the USA," episode 46 "Manufacturing Training in Massachusetts," or episode 30 "Rethinking Workforce Learning."

[00:36:41] Hopefully you'll find something awesome in these four other episodes. And if so, do let us know by messaging us. We would love to share your thoughts with other listeners. Augmented podcast is created in association with Tulip, the connected frontline operations platform that connects the people, machines, devices, and systems used in a production or logistics process in a physical location.

[00:37:05] Tuliop, it's democratizing technology and empowering those closest to operations to solve problems. Tulip is also hiring. You can find Tulip.co at tulip.co. Please share this show with colleagues who care about where industry and especially industrial tech is heading to find us on social media is easy.

[00:37:24] We are Augmented part on LinkedIn and Twitter and Augmented podcast and Facebook and YouTube, Augmented industrial conversations that matter. See you next time.

Kathryn Kelley Profile Photo

Kathryn Kelley

Executive Director

Kathryn Kelley serves as executive director of the Ohio Manufacturing Institute at The Ohio State University. She has more than 20 years' experience in program leadership and strategic communications at industry-oriented higher education, economic development and statewide technology organizations. She collaborates with state and national partners to develop regional and national public policy to support manufacturing innovation, advocate for small- and medium-sized manufacturing needs within the supply chains and remove barriers between academia and industry.

Activities include:
- Collaborated on a NIST Manufacturing Extension Partnership pilot project on Digital Transformation for Manufacturers to develop and engage small- and medium-sized manufacturing firms in their journey toward digital integration
- Conducted research and published an Economic Development Quarterly report that resulted in leading the coordination of a new Bachelor of Science in Engineering Technology degree program at The Ohio State University across four regional campuses
- Work hand in hand with state and national partners, including the Ohio Manufacturers’ Association and Ohio TechNet, on advanced manufacturing education pathways and career programs
- Issued an Ohio Department of Development-funded project on Ohio Advanced Manufacturing Technical Resource Network roadmaps organized by manufacturing processes to determine solutions to critical manufacturing needs
- Administer Ohio Department of Higher Education (ODHE) Ohio Means Internships & Co-ops program for the Central Ohio region
- Served as Ohio principal investigator on a $2.24M US Department of Defense Office of Economic Adjustment Defense Manufacturing Assistance Program and $300K Defense Cybersecurity Assurance Program
- Manage industry engagement for ODHE Ohio Innovation Exchange, a statewide research expertise portal connecting Ohio academic and technical institutions with industry partners
- Produce and host "Manufacturing Tomorrow," a podcast series with 2,000+ subscribers that highlights innovative manufacturers and the partnerships that propel their efforts

She is dedicated to researching and issuing action-provoking reports and developing programs with industry and academic partners that support the integration of advanced manufacturing and workforce development.