Augmented reveals the stories behind the new era of industrial operations, where technology will restore the agility of frontline workers.
In episode 12 of the podcast, the topic is: Enterprise Wide Quality of Manufacturing. Our guest is Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran.
In this conversation, we talk about The history of Quality, its origins, the terms involved and the evolution of the field into Lean and Agile. We discuss persisting workforce challenges, emerging trends and best practices. We cover the Future outlook: What’s next? How to stay up to date?
After listening to this episode, check out Juran as well as Guest's social profile.
My takeaway is that Quality is a concept many instinctively would say they have a great handle on, but time and again, manufacturing consultants have uncovered through factory visits that they do not, whether they call it Quality, Agile or Lean. The processes that work are near timeless, but implementing them is unfortunately also a timeless task. Arguably, the productization of quality is coming and it will, like so many other things, also be tech enabled.
Thanks for listening. If you liked the show, subscribe at Augmentedpodcast.co or in your preferred podcast player, and rate us with five stars. If you liked this episode, you might also like episode 2, How to Train Augmented Workers or episode 9, The Fourth Industrial Revolution Post-COVID-19.
Augmented--the industry 4.0 podcast.
Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:00:00] Augmented reveal stories behind a new era of industrial operations, where technology will restore the agility of frontline workers. In episode 12 of the podcast, the topic is enterprise wide quality of Manufacturing. Our guest is Joseph, DeFeo CEO of Juran. In this conversation, we talk about the history of quality it's origins, the terms involved, and the evolution of the.
[00:00:30] Into lean and agile. We discussed persisting workforce challenges, emerging trends and best practices. We cover
[00:00:38] Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:00:38] the future
[00:00:39] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:00:39] outlook. What's next, how to stay up to date. Augmented is a podcast for leaders hosted by future is thrown on it. Undheim presented by Tulip dot co the Manufacturing app platform and associated with MFG works.
[00:00:54] The Manufacturing upskilling community launched at the World Economic Forum. Each episode dives deep. Into a contemporary topic of concern across the industry and airs at 9:00 AM us Eastern time. Every Wednesday, Augmented the industry 4.0 podcast. Joe, how are you today?
[00:01:14] Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:01:14] Good. How are you?
[00:01:16] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:01:16] Yeah, I'm excited.
[00:01:17] I am, I wanted to talk a little bit about quality and I know that's something you've been working on for a while. Give me a little idea, Joe, how you got into this business of quality.
[00:01:28] Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:01:28] So interesting question. It's kinda been in the family for. 35 years to an extent. And I kinda got into it from listening to my father's conference calls over the years as the trial, then, never intended to go into this business until I was presented with an opportunity in 2010 to learn from him and from all the other consultants.
[00:01:48] And I guess I picked up a thing or two over the last. 34 years, but I've been working with the company for 10 years. And since 2016 and I've been my F my father's successor my father was also the successor of Dr. Juran. And so it's been, we've been continuing to get on and, he's still actively involved, but you know what I like most about what we do is, helping people understand, how to.
[00:02:13] Improve their quality of goods and services, so that they're provided the most impact and benefit to their customers. And really just trying to become more effective in, help businesses grow to ultimately help us.
[00:02:24] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:02:24] Got it. You mentioned that you're second, the second successor, the history of the quality movement is interesting.
[00:02:31]Can you give me a a little sense of the origins of the term and how your firm has been involved in this quality?
[00:02:41] Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:02:41] Yeah. I'll start with the, how. Our company became into existence. His company was founded in 1979 by Dr. Joseph M. Duran, who started the company when he was 75. And the reason why he started the company was to continue to spread his message in the late seventies, prior internet.
[00:02:58] And e-learning, he realized he didn't have a grade. Way to continue his message cause he was, getting towards retirement. And you just said it record himself because you can only hit 25 people a week from one class. So he recorded himself and we started as.
[00:03:12] Kind of a, pre-dawn the company of selling video tapes. And a lot of what's in those video tapes is through 50 years of research that he did prior to 1979. And, he became pretty famous in the late 1950s when he was asked to go to Japan with a counterpart at redeeming to teach organizations in Japan, including Toyota and amongst others.
[00:03:34] And he focused on a lot of the leadership and you know how to manage for quality. And, understanding the culture and the behaviors and mindsets that really shift the organizations to improve the quality of goods and services. And so since then he, two of the World of providing different observations and assessments to really teach the organization what they needed to do to improve and the way he defined quality was the.
[00:04:00] Product or services, free of failure and exceeds and meets the customer's needs. So you're focusing on two things is the efficiency and effectiveness of a process. And ultimately servicing the customer.
[00:04:11]Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:04:11] Give me also an idea of why this was so new. It's almost strange now to think that there never was a focus on quality before.
[00:04:20]How did that happen? Was there just industrial dynamics just didn't really value quality,
[00:04:26] Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:04:26] 1950s. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. And quality's always been there part of our. Old logo was ancient Egyptians was the first sign of actually quality control, which was thousands of years ago.
[00:04:41] And kind of what Dr. Duran did was expand upon thoughts from others, which he expanded upon from, Shewhart Crosby, going into the early 1920s, late 18 hundreds. And lot of what quality was the time he was there, it was called a control statistical control.
[00:04:58]And, quality checks, inspections, that's all it really was. And what he did is, he took that and through his own experience and observations, he identified ways that, he used the scientific method to really understand, what are the root causes way before lean six Sigma ever came about?
[00:05:15] And what he did was, and this wasn't using a ton of statistics, but it was just, Observations measurements, using the scientific method to really understand what is the root cause, solve for chronic issues and, really come to a new level of control. And this is, after seeing this over and over again, look at companies, how will they work?
[00:05:35]And through his own research, he realized it became a universal principle is, what it is. Main principles is this quality trilogy, which is the universal principle about how companies operate. And so he more or less just expanded on what was existing, but in a lot of what he did really helped companies.
[00:05:51] And it helped form the movements we see today within lean six Sigma operations excellence.
[00:05:56] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:05:56] Yeah. I wanted to get to the, yeah. I wanted to get to agile and lean and six Sigma as well, but yeah. But just to briefly, so he wrote a few books, one was a quality handbook and some of it was building on Edward Dennings principles.
[00:06:10] I understand. So he was working in a,
[00:06:12] Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:06:12] yeah, several kind of like
[00:06:13] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:06:13] counterparts. And then the Pareto principle, which has become so important in many fields of life the 80 20 rule was also, or is also a very important part of this quality legacy. Tell me a little bit more about that.
[00:06:26]Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:06:26] The cradle principle with everybody knows is the 80 20 rule. And I don't think people really understand and recognize where it comes from and looking for the notoriety of the credit. But, the predo principle was found out through Dr. Duran, looking at the research that an Italian economist feel free to Pareto conducted and, identify that 20% of the population in Italy and the late 18 hundreds of 80% of the wealth.
[00:06:52] Any, Dr. Tran looked at that and looked at, it's another one of those universal principles and that's why everyone today it's like the 80 20 rule. And some people call it the 90 10 rule or the 70, 30 rule just to make it a little bit different or treated of its own, but it's universal.
[00:07:07] And, Dr. Drin that they wanted to call it the Duran predo principle, but he's, and I was like, I didn't necessarily create it. I just expanded upon it and did the research for. That's what I would call the, the parade of principle and, we use it from prioritizing projects to, you can use it pretty much in any, anything, and it can take some call to it and make it quantitative.
[00:07:27] And it really helps to focus yourself and target what you're supposed to be doing.
[00:07:31]Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:07:31] And if we bring this up to today where we have these other things over the last few decades with agile and which is a new one and lean and Six Sigma and various other things that are also connected somehow to the quality movement.
[00:07:45] What does it mean? Today to do an assessment of a company. And or what we were talking about right now is I guess, this notion of an enterprise wide quality
[00:07:57] Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:07:57] control. So another term for enterprise water quality, it was in the. The eighties, total quality management. It was not only getting, from a manufacturing perspective.
[00:08:07] It's not only getting the frontline workers or the production processes, but, incorporating this mindset and cultural beliefs throughout the entire organization. And a lot of the Japanese companies adopted the us and. But it's struggled within the United States. And so thus TQ, a movement only lasted about a half a decade to, middle of the 19 half a decade to it, five to 10 years and fell out of sight, kinda moved into lean six Sigma.
[00:08:32] It's starting to circulate back, not as TQM it's more or less just organizations have identified that they need to expand beyond just the production and in, in really start to adopt this mindset of quality of which is, agile teams, smaller teams, faster things. And a lot of what I see too, is people are looking to do enterprise wide quality, but they think quality is only lean.
[00:08:55] Or efficiency or agile, but it's more or less what w what we teach in. How to think about it. Those are all different tools in the toolbox, but it's, how do you manage and how do you structure that toolbox and what do you pick the right times? And a lot of that is strategic. What is your approach?
[00:09:11] How do you deploy it? What are your results? And starting small and expand throughout the organization over time. And people may think that's too slow, but it'll reduce the rework down the line. You look at exponential and performance instead of going to incremental performance. And also, with the idea of technology now is, the person, the workforce within the quarter organization is a little bit behind.
[00:09:29]And so the only way to really scale quality within an organization is to have some type of technology component, not to replace the employee, but to augment their skills and uplift them to make them more productive, more effective at doing their jobs.
[00:09:44]Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:09:44] It is the balance between technology and humans on the shop floor or in the workforce, because this seems to be a perennial question that was, at various stages in history, there's always this optimism around technology necessarily making everybody more efficient, but then time and time again, we're disillusioned by it as well.
[00:10:04] Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:10:04] Yeah. And I think. We're disillusioned that the only thing is about efficiency, productivity, output coming back from the 1920s from the teller system and being obsessed with output and productivity, it's just, if I could produce more product faster, cheaper, better, that'll make my profits go up.
[00:10:21]And so sometimes, and it's also a little bit easier so easier to do lean it's easier, more it's focuses on efficiency. It's a little easier to chew it's, not as challenging and I have to use as many statistics. And people pick that because it's a little bit, easier to go through.
[00:10:35]It's, people, humans are wireless path, the path of least resistance. And however it'll eventually catch up with you and, there will be times when you have recalls and, You got to manage both the effectiveness and you can do both at the same time. It's just as long as the workforce has the skills and capabilities to do it.
[00:10:50] If they don't, they will pick something. And, it's almost we're profitable, we do this, but it's, if you focused on both, you could be that much more profitable or that much more revenue growth. So it really takes also the leadership to really identify that they want to do this.
[00:11:05]Because there's a lot of leaders that say we want to do it, but they don't act upon
[00:11:08] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:11:08] it. I'm curious, Joe, when you or a Duran goes into Manufacturing. Company and tries to implement quality. What do you do? What's step one then what are the questions you ask? What are the things you're looking for?
[00:11:22] What's the data that tells you what the challenge or problem is and and how do you start then identifying fixes to, to these fairly vague problems sometimes? Or are they actually pretty obvious? Are you going in with here's the bottleneck, please fix it for us or is it much
[00:11:39] Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:11:39] the best consultants speak is it depends.
[00:11:44] It depends on the customer. It depends on their problems. It depends on the type of leader they are, but it, from a Pareto principle or majority, majority of if we have a new, we have this one client we're working with and China actually, who, is one of the largest suppliers of lithium.
[00:12:00]For Manufacturing in the world. And, they came to us, not because they had a real big quality problem. They came to us because they were about to spend by five, five X over the next five years, going from a $5 billion company to a $20 billion company in five years. And what was interesting is that this leader.
[00:12:22]Identify that they had issues or they had problems, they weren't perfect. He didn't know everything. And they wanted to support their growth for the future. And even though they're doing a really good job in quality, they still had a room for improvement because you can't be perfect.
[00:12:36] And what we did and looking as a validate saying is true, but also identify other areas that he wasn't necessarily looking at because he himself is not a quality expert, but he knew the importance of it through people that we've actually people on his staff that we've trained at other companies.
[00:12:54]And we usually start with assessing the maturity of the organization. And do they understand how to manage for quality and at what level in the simplest terms,
[00:13:05] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:13:05] I know a lot of it is about training.
[00:13:07]Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:13:07] Th training is just a, one of the solutions that we provide, but it's more or less, we're always training and educating our customers, even when we're assessing and analyzing data, because our main goal is to.
[00:13:21]Dr. always was, they got to be able to do it themselves because if you can't do it themselves, they'll never get anywhere. And from day one, from the assessments we're teaching the organization, why we're doing what we're doing, how you can do it eventually. From the assessment, we look at, leadership, not on the shop floor skills.
[00:13:39]We look at. Cost data, financial metrics, should you plan and see how everything is linked together to really assess, what is your approach look like? What is your deploy? How well are you deploying your approach and what results are you getting? And, when we've done a survey of 500 leaders, 80% of the time leaders are like got great approach to deployment.
[00:14:00] And, they're like, I don't know why my results aren't happening and it's because a, you probably didn't assess the baseline. You're solving the sporadic spike problems and you're slapping training to everything. And we get time and time again, like customers come to us like, Hey, we want to provide training.
[00:14:17] We want to buy training, or we want you to train our people. But you're coming to us with the solution. It was training as a solution to a skill-based problem. It's just like, why are your employees not skilled? That is the problem you should be solving is Oh, we don't have a structured to train them.
[00:14:31] We don't have content or, they don't know when to use it. They don't have time, so we use assessments to really identify where's the biggest opportunity for improvement and attack that problem. And then, slowly trickle it in. So sometimes companies are more mature, maybe they just need coaching.
[00:14:47] This needs some guidance, ad hoc support, they don't know anything and they very basic, we'll lead the products well like a traditional consulting would, but eventually we would. Our main goal is to, a start small. Prove it works. Take the lessons, learning constantly adopt that throughout the entire organization.
[00:15:06]You could see results within a matter of months. We have a current customer right now we've been working with for 15 years that has seen close to $2 billion in return on investment. Mainly from their own doing because of what we taught them, how to do it. So not only do we help bring the not only to help you eat the fish, but we also teach you how to fish the
[00:15:24] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:15:24] fish.
[00:15:26] It's about the impact because, so often you hear that these operational improvements, they're incremental and, so I I was interested in what to do if operational improvements and quality focus actually can be an innovative differentiator as well. Or if it's mostly about cutting margins, improvements at the edge of the process.
[00:15:48] Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:15:48] Yeah. And so a lot of organizations, they think of cutting costs, cutting labor as a first act. And sometimes when they do go down that path, they ended up removing a lot of value added activity that wouldn't have known had they actually looked at the processes. And the long-term effect is, very negative because eventually the.
[00:16:08] The customers will become upset based on what they do. So when we think of the cost and what we're really trying to get at is the cost of poor quality is really the difference. The quantifiable measure of waste, which is the difference between value added activity and non-value-added activity. And so our goal is to eliminate the non-value activity while remaining to value added activity.
[00:16:29]And some parts it's time to, hard to discern between the two. And so we have different methods to identifying what that is. And a lot of people, we say the tip of the iceberg a lot of what is visible. This is easy to quantify. What is not visible is, you had to recall, okay. You know how to quantify that recall, but how long did it take you to identify it?
[00:16:50] How long did it take you to analyze where the problem is? How long did it figure out to find the solution to error and implemented it and send it back out? That's what we call like the hidden factory. That's hidden steps, the hidden costs between different processes, business units. And that's what stuff is the underneath, all that the iceberg, which is the main driver of, how to reduce cost effectively.
[00:17:11] But, it's not all about reducing costs, but it's, how do you optimize more revenue? How do you prevent. Costs, in, we had a customer. Project one time where we avoided costs, how, it was a children's, juice box, children's a yogurt packet and the little plastic thing on the top, if that fell off, the child could choke on it.
[00:17:32] And that created a huge problem and some of that needed to be near perfect. And they didn't really reduce costs in that solution. They prevented costs. So there's different ways to look at, preventing costs, reducing, hard savings, looking at how to generate revenue. And so all those things working at once is really how you look at that.
[00:17:53]Really how do you measure the ROI, but, looking at the exponential improvement instead of incremental, it's starting small. We teach 10 people, those people teach 10 people. And, you do one product, then you can do three and then you can do father cause everyone is learning how to do the learning, the mindset, the behaviors.
[00:18:11] And they're also learning the skill. And then, in the future, when you add technology to that, it's only going to, increase that at a more dramatic effect because a lot of what they were getting trained in before may not need to get trained in it in the future. She'll create a better workforce more highly skilled and highly talented so that they can spend more time on the value added activities like with the customer solving problems faster, but the
[00:18:35] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:18:35] big challenge it isn't the big challenge also.
[00:18:38] And knowing how, what to measure, because like you were pointing out, if you start measuring the wrong thing, because it's easier to measure or because it's convenient, right? You have a way to do it, or maybe it's cheaper to measure, or maybe some manager likes it. How do you avoid it? Isn't that the big fall, the drawback of some of the quality movement, the accesses of it is people start measuring whatever they want to measure.
[00:19:03] And the measurement becomes the objective.
[00:19:05]Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:19:05] Yeah, now with a lot of technology and sensors that you're producing a lot of data. Yeah,
[00:19:10]Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:19:10] Too much sometimes, or at least the overload of it.
[00:19:14] Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:19:14] Yeah. Yeah. It's, again, you don't know where to start. And so the freedom principle helps you do that.
[00:19:18]It sounded like, what. How much data do you need? Billions of data points, but it's really, you need to tap into that data. It's like the last mile problem. Like you're producing all this data and information, I've talked to one customer I'm like, where do you keep your data?
[00:19:31] They're like we keep about 99% of it in the database. Like we look at about 1% of it. And I'm like, if you look at 1% of it, like you're not even measuring it, you're just capturing a very small fragment of all your problems. And so there needs to be a better way to, get to analyze that data, to make insights from it, to make the right decisions and knowing what problems to solve.
[00:19:52] If you're just producing a lot of data, then you're just producing. The problem is faster, but you're still not uncovering. Like where's the problem. What's the cause and effect relationship. Is it a chronic problem or is it something that can be done immediately? And does everybody know in the system how to solve a problem?
[00:20:10]Cause in the simplest terms, in simple sense, we teach organizations how to solve problems using the scientific method. It may seem more, they seem. Like common sense because sometimes it is, but it's incredibly challenging because it's really hard to be objective. And it's really hard to be objective upon yourself and talk about problems at work because no one likes talking about problems because everyone ends up pointing the finger at each other.
[00:20:39] So sometimes technology can eliminate some of those barriers, but it also can highlight more of the issues faster, quicker, so that. You can look at that data and analyze it. But no matter what technology you have, you still need to understand the concepts behind what that metric is doing or what that graph is telling you where you know, what step in the problem solving process you need to do.
[00:21:01] Because without all that, the computer isn't going to solve it for you maybe eventually, but in the short term, it's not going to solve your problem for you because you're still going to have to build a solution for it.
[00:21:11] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:21:11] Joe, with working in 62 different countries, you told me on with 950 clients, what are some of the biggest surprises you've had?
[00:21:18]I'm just thinking when you come into an organization and you start looking at the problem, have there been situations where you thought you were going into solve one problem and ended up solving a different one or I was just trying to get a sense of why people would hire a quality consultant.
[00:21:35] And if they know if the right people know how to hire is also a question.
[00:21:39]Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:21:39] I think the biggest thing that I see is, sometimes how we do our assessments is we talk to people like we listen, sometimes in organizations, it doesn't matter the country you're coming in there because these people you're coming in there a to help the leaders solve a problem.
[00:21:56] You're also trying to get information from the people that are closest to the problem, but what's the most, and this has happened in any country. Any industry that have been in is that they look at you as Oh, thank God. You're here. You're going to help us get our voice heard or help us solve the problem.
[00:22:12]It gets, sometimes these people, you just listen and let them talk. And and they tell you a lot without you even asking a question and they tell you a little bit more than the problem we should know, but it only is there to help. And it's almost like you having a therapy session with hundreds of employees in different countries, in different companies, but no matter the country, no matter the company, they're always there because.
[00:22:33]If there are problems, their leadership is recognizing it as a problem you're in there to help. They see you as to help. And they see you, I've had people cry in these interviews and it's just like shocking. It's just like you're under so much stress and pain and we're there to help you.
[00:22:51]We're going to solve every issue. I have to say too. It's not everywhere because there is one client I went to actually in the United States, in Tennessee, that there was a little bit of a miscommunication problem because the upper leadership did not tell. The plant that I was actually coming to do an an assessment and they almost told me to leave until I did the assessment.
[00:23:14] And they're like, thank you for coming. We really appreciate what you've done and told us, we apologize for what happened at the beginning. And so it's just like people question it, they're objective, they're skeptical. But when you show them that, you know what, you will help them identify of the problem.
[00:23:29] You help them see what is actually happening as long as you can do that. There'll be very receptive and, that goes, that's probably the most shocking thing from it. The shock most shocking, but it's most consistent thing I've seen across.
[00:23:42] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:23:42] I was just curious about if you've had any surprises when you work with clients, but more than that.
[00:23:47] Yeah. People
[00:23:48] Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:23:48] faking data. Yeah.
[00:23:51] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:23:51] Taking good data to make you happy or to make themselves
[00:23:54] Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:23:54] happy. One time we had an audit like 20 different sites and I don't know, 30 countries, 20, 20 countries. And after a while, like people talk and they knew we were coming and we try to be, cause audits is like a point in time what is happening.
[00:24:07] And when this one country went through and like Hungary, it was like a town of 400 people. And they were like really nice people and We were telling them what we were doing. And they were like, hold on. It was like during the launch, this is we're going in the afternoon.
[00:24:17] They're like, hold on. And they didn't return for 45 minutes. And they went out and Did things. We were going to check inspections, like model numbers for the inventory and stuff like that, of the really small. And they like went out and just wrote it down to see we're like, that's not going to make you pass.
[00:24:31] That doesn't mean you pass or they'll manipulate the data to be like, Oh, we changed it. So it looks better. That is only going to hurt yourself. So it's like the problem with that organization. It's not so much the plant failing. It's at the leadership. It's culture makes that happen. It makes that okay.
[00:24:49] And until that changes the company, we're going to still cut corners. I'm not sure what happened to those guys, but
[00:24:55] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:24:55] Joe weren't ghost quality movement. Where is it heading now? What's a and how do you how do you track it? People who are interested in tracking it, they can go to Gerard's site.
[00:25:04] I'm. Sure. Where do you get your dates? Because you say it's scientific methods that, I these things are evolving, right?
[00:25:10] Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:25:10] These things, These things are consistent. The underlying concepts, I don't think will ever change. They'll adapt a little more, some will call it something else.
[00:25:18] Another person will take what they've learned and say, they're an expert in this, really I did it, where the future is going in qualities is this things like what you guys are doing at Tulip. Looking at the concepts and fundamentals of quality and using technology to really transform how certain areas are done, and in a war or we see a movement in the future of quality. It's not so much the replacement of employees with robots and devices. It's just, how does technology and how do people work together to become more efficient and not only efficient, more effective? And how do you collect better?
[00:25:48] Real-time data. How do you use AI and machine learning to help you analyze the data and help you pick out things that you may not have known before? And so it, it's the things that you guys are doing. Other startups are doing other technology companies are doing the investment, that companies we help look at digital transformation and really just giving a leg up in, the F the workforce.
[00:26:09] And instead of, Training a ton of people. Like I th I, you still need training, but in, in training, in how to use the technology and the underlying concepts behind it, I think that'll evolve. I think the days where you're sitting in a classroom for eight hours a day, learning how to analysis will die out over time.
[00:26:25]You still need to know it. And so you may need to know 20 skills today, but in five years, you're going to need to know 40 and 20 of the skills that you've learned before are obsolete. And so not only does the organization have to change. The technology needs to, help the organization change, but ultimately help the employee do their job more effectively.
[00:26:44] And if the companies don't do this and think about the future of the workforce and how technology is going to play a role, they're going to be stuck in, they need to be able to scale quality. And that's why there's a lot of enterprise wide movements to start to think about how to change the behavior and mindsets, because that is the longest thing to change.
[00:27:03] And technology does not change behaviors and mindsets. It happens over time. And it takes a long time. So in a combined effect, technology's not going away. The stuff that we've been teaching for 75 years, isn't going away. It's just, how is it delivered? How has it managed and who is it managed by will change.
[00:27:23] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:27:23] If you were to give just one piece of advice to a company where you're going in or someone who might be thinking I wonder if I'm doing this these things correctly, what is the first thing they should think about? Let's say I'm listening to this podcast or watching a clip with you talking and they, people start reflecting, in my organization, we, I think we have certain.
[00:27:47] Challenges. What is the first step, in recognizing either in
[00:27:52] Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:27:52] this scenario or are you a frontline employee?
[00:27:56] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:27:56] It's calling me a manager. I'm a manager in in a manufacturing company and I'm responsible for, work processes and people and machines to be reflecting on this.
[00:28:08]Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:28:08] A, if you're listening to this and you're reflecting on this and trying to see, what could I do? And I think the biggest piece of advice is look at where you're at today. It'll figure out, what are you doing, right? What are you doing wrong? Try to get a baseline of your performance.
[00:28:22]You can do that yourself. Do the people you're working with, do they have the skills necessary to do what you do? Are your projects aligned? To what the plant is telling you or the organization telling you, and if you see problems that aren't getting done within the organization, figure out ways to communicate to leadership.
[00:28:40] And that's where you use cost the poor quality, the quantify quantification of problems with the monetary way that we'll communicate to your leader just by showing, Hey, we've got a lot of problems. Yeah. That leader probably has a thousand problems, but if you look at the. Use the parades principle and figure out, how do you get his attention?
[00:28:59] It's, the, Hey, this project can save us X amount of money or avoid X amount of money. And he will be like, go do it because that is how he thinks and how he is taught. The thing is around money because the ultimate goal of the company is, higher profitability, that are numbers.
[00:29:13] And so the ultimate goal is, highest level of quality to lowest possible cost. So as a manager, You just gotta make sure you and your team are incredibly talented and capable. If your company doesn't provide training, go get the training. If you don't know something, figure out where you're at.
[00:29:28]Compare yourself to the other parts of the organization. If you're a big organization, if you're a small one, just look at, how things are happening. Two things happen consistently, look at your data, be objective, listen. And of course, if you need a third party to benchmark against,
[00:29:42] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:29:42] Last thing. Can you restate in a clear and short statement? Joe, this following question. What is enterprise? What is enterprise grade quality in manufacturing today?
[00:29:54] Joseph DeFeo, CEO, Juran: [00:29:54] Yeah. One it's understanding what the definition of quality is and to repeat it's, a product is, freedom of failure and fit for purpose that fit for purpose.
[00:30:04] Cross organization is no matter the product process. Procedure, whatever it is, it's fit for purpose. And it's free to failure focusing on to efficiency and effectiveness. The only difference between one department to an enterprise is that it happens across the enterprise, not just in the production, but in the front office, back office, HR sales marketing.
[00:30:27] The entire thing. And how that happens is that people want you to understand is processes don't happen up and down. They happen across. So you have to look at who you're receiving work for and who are you sending it to? You have. To look at your customer, not just your external customer, but your customer, meaning, I may have an internal customer.
[00:30:47] You Trond my be receiving my work. You are my customer. I need to understand your needs. And I need to understand the person behind me. So as long as you can have a process, that's free of failure and fit for purpose it's efficient and effective. Thinking of the customer and you repeatedly do that. Five people, 10 people, a thousand, 50,000 over time, you will see it exponentially grow across an organization.
[00:31:14] And this thing, these things do not happen overnight.
[00:31:18] Trond Arne Undheim, Host: [00:31:18] Thank you so much for sharing your insights on the quality Joe, you have just listened to episode 12 of the Augmented podcast with hosts throne Ana Undheim. The topic was enterprise wide quality of Manufacturing. Our guest was Joseph. DeFeo, CEO Juran. In this conversation, we talked about the history of quality and its origins.
[00:31:39] The terms involved on the evolution of the field into lean and agile. We discussed persisting workforce challenges. Emerging trends and best practices. We cover the future outlook. What's next, how to stay up to date? My takeaway is that quality is a concept. Many instinctively would say they have a great handle on the time.
[00:32:00] And again, Manufacturing consultants haven't covered through factory visits that they do not, whether they call it quality agile or lean the processes that work right near timeless, but implementing them is unfortunately also a time. Let's task. Arguably the product ization of quality is coming and it will like so many other things also be tech enabled.
[00:32:25] Thanks for listening. If you'd like to show subscribe at Augmented podcast dot code or in your preferred podcast player and rate us with five stars. If you liked this episode, you might also like episode two, how to train Augmented workers or episode nine, the fourth industrial revolution post COVID-19 Augmented the industry.
[00:32:45] 4.0 podcast.
Joseph DeFeo is an experienced CEO and formerly a Chief Operating Officer with a demonstrated history of working in the management consulting industry and operating globally. Juran provides research, training and consulting services to global businesses and has been supporting business excellence methods to drive business results for 40 years. Juran continues to build on the legacy of our founder Dr. Joseph M. Juran.
He is focused on re-defining the consulting business model to allow organizations of all types to benefit from experts. To do so, he is leveraging technology to spread Dr. Juran's methodology and founding principles to create open learning organizations where they can continue to grow and evolve on their own.
Joseph DeFeo is skilled in Innovation, People Management, Management, Advising Organizations, and Leadership. He has a strong finance and accounting background with a Master of Business Administration (M.B.A.) focused in Accounting and Operations from Fairfield University and Bachelors of Science in Finance and Accounting from Providence College.